After discussing cat-calling and sexual harassment of women and young girls on her BBC 5 Live show yesterday, Emma Barnett put a call out to speak to a man who thought this kind of behaviour was ok. One man, 'George' a 40-year-old builder answered.
This morning on her show, she played the interview, in which she brilliantly challenged the man - told him women don't like it, explained why they should be able to wear whatever they want without abuse and asked what he'd think if someone did it to his own mum.
The interview has been widely praised already on social media, after George admitted, amongst other things, ' Women to me are just objects'.
At times it was depressing listening, but in Emma's hands, the interview at least gave some relief for the women screaming at their radios, as she took him to task in a calm and forensic manner that has become her hallmark.
Emma started the interview with the aim of trying to 'work out how we can challenge this behaviour and stop it from happening.'
She opened by asking why he decided to shout at young girls, including sixth-formers and teens.
'If a girl’s like a sixth former wearing a short skirt and tight trousers and that what's a man supposed to do if he thinks she’s attractive?' he said. 'You can call out to them and some of them like it.
'To sixth formers I have done yeah... To one girl I said, ‘Your bottom looks good’. I was driving.
'I've done it all my life, really. To women or any girl that looks nice and some of them like it. Sometimes I can get phone numbers and things like that... If a girl looks mature in her body and they're wearing revealing clothes and that, why do they do it? I don't understand.'
The man claimed the behaviour had got him phone numbers and even dates in the past. But Emma pressed him as to how on earth he knew it was 'legal' (in his mind) if they're over 16, when many girls look older than they are.
'Just looking at their face, if their face looks mature. I’ve got a good idea.' he said. Asked about instances where girls do dress up to look older, such as getting into nightclubs, he said: 'Well that’s your fault if you’re trying to act older.'
'Grown women have a right to walk down the street and not have that said to them' said Emma, adding that sometimes women might smile, just to get away from him.
But George was resolute. 'Sometimes yeah, but sometimes they do like it, I know they do' he claimed. 'They’re pleased with the comment. It makes their day. It makes them feel good.'
Asked what he thought about women who don't like, it he shockingly said: 'That’s life isn’t it? There’s things happen that are unpleasant. You just have to get on with your life...
'I didn’t used to do it, but I used to hang out with these guys in the village. I was shy when I was a teenager, and I kind of went along with what they did. They used to get loads of girls and that so I’ve done it ever since.'
Sadly, despite all of Emma's work, trying to get through to him, George continued to stay resolute when asked if he would now change his behaviour.
'I'm not saying I don't care, but it's just life. It’s the birds and the bees as they say,' he said. He later added: 'Next time a woman’s walking down the street wearing a really short skirt, maybe she shouldn’t wear that if she doesn’t want comments.'
'That's nonsense' said Emma - and all of the women listening. 'So women have to dress differently, walk with their heads down, and not go anywhere near your vehicle?' she added.
'I don’t know. I haven't got children. Women to me are just objects.'
'What if they shout back what’s in their mind like, "Oi you absolute pervert do one"?' countered Emma.
George's reply? 'I’d rather they not say that, because I’m not a pervert.'
Groups like Our Streets Now and Plan UK are attempted to introduce laws which criminalise all forms of sexual harassment.
A government spokesperson told the show: 'We are committed to tackling all forms of abuse against women and girls and take harassment extremely seriously. Unwelcome advances that intimidate, degrade, or humiliate are an abuse of power and are unlawful. The previous Violence Against Women And Girls Strategy included sexual harassment for the first time in recognition of the disproportionate impact it has on women.'
You can listen to Emma's interview at the beginning of her show here.