If anyone is well-placed to have a view on the evolution of how motherhood is perceived by society, it’s Helen Thorn and Ellie Gibson. As co-hosts of the Scummy Mummies podcast, they have talked about motherhood every fortnight for a decade. In that time, we’ve seen the ‘yummy mummy’ backlash, the launch of TikTok and the mumfluencer implosion.
‘When we started the podcast, the mummy landscape was very sincere,’ says Thorn. ‘People still used terms like “bounce back” [from pregnancy] and motherhood was glamorised. We were part of that first wave of honest parenting.’
Gibson describes how honest parenting started out as positive, assuaging the guilt that parents felt if they gave their kids fish fingers while watching a child on Instagram eat organic salmon. ‘Then it swung a bit too far,’ she says. ‘There was an awful lot of “wine o’clock” stuff suggesting it’s OK to be pissed all the time. But now it feels like there’s room for everyone; there isn’t a right and a wrong. We’re all somewhere in the middle.’
The podcast has now been downloaded more than 6.5 million times in 150 countries. They have never missed an episode, even during traumatic upheavals such as Gibson’s premature baby and Thorn’s divorce. They also continue to tour their comedy show. In 2019, they made their Edinburgh Festival debut, selling out a 25-night run. ‘There was also that gig in the Thai to nine people, where the waiters served food in the middle of our punchlines,’ says Gibson. It’s this spirit of self-deprecation that has won them such ardent fans.
One thing that sets the duo apart is that you never see their children on social media. That’s partly about protecting their kids’ privacy, but more about protecting the parents’ childfree time. ‘We quickly realised that what we do is not really about kids,’ says Gibson. ‘In the early days, we used to allow people to bring their babies to our shows, but then we realised that this is a mums’ night out. It needs to feel like a party and you don’t want kids at a party.’
While the Scummy Mummies are quite separate to the Instamums, as they’re more about their podcast and stand-up shows than influencing, there has been cross-pollination over the years, so they were shocked by the events that shook the ‘mumfluencer’ world in 2019. Clemmie Hooper’s @motherofdaughters account had 700,000 followers when she was caught anonymously posting as a troll in an online forum, making disparaging comments about influencers, and her own husband. She was forced to apologise, deactivate her account and watch lucrative brand collaborations melt away. Meanwhile, this warm, relatable world suddenly felt toxic.
‘It was just really sad,’ says Gibson. ‘We’re friends with some of the people involved, and I could see how Clemmie got to that point, but I could also see how the people who she hurt were extremely badly hurt. It was heartbreaking to watch friendships implode.’
As for the impact on the broader world of online parenthood? ‘It was a reality check in terms of the fact that your Instagram feed is curated,’ says Thorn. Thorn has been on the sharp end of when a person’s reality clashes with their online persona. After her divorce, she lost weight. ‘And I’ve had people unfollow me because my body has changed,’ she says. ‘They’re like, “You’re not who you said you were.” My Instagram used to be @Helenwearsasize18 and I changed it when that was no longer true. But change is confronting for people.’ Again, it comes down to what happens when a woman doesn’t fit into whichever category she’s been assigned.
Thorn and Gibson bristle at the idea of mum tribes. ‘I mean, you can’t blame the patriarchy for everything, except you actually can,’ says Gibson. ‘This is another example of women being put in boxes. It’s derogatory.’ ‘I don’t like the divisiveness,’ adds Thorn. ‘Mothers get it from the moment the baby is born: C-section or “natural” birth, breast or bottle... we’re constantly being made to feel as though we’re failing.’
It’s why the Scummy Mummies’ ethos is about making mothers feel less alone. ‘I love it when someone says, “You make me feel normal,”’ says Thorn. ‘That’s what we’ve always aimed to do; reassure other women that we’re all in this together.’